YSK: There are a lot of great crypto tax services that process your trades for the year, track all your currencies, and calculate taxes/generate forms for you. I use CryptoTrader.Tax but there a...
Not a lot is said here about mining. A miner receives multiple (tens of thousands) micropayments from a pool. These accumulate in their pool account. The miner can set up their account so the pay...
Governments, the monopoly of coercive force, are only interested in taxing people. Bitcoin, right now at least, seems untaxable. Taxation is theft and governments are mad because they cannot stea...
You cannot tax bitcoin.. it's not for US Government to regulate. Too bad because it's anonymous! HA-HA-HA! TONIGHT I SHALL DINE IRS SOUP!
You might already have a problem. For many years now, anybody with US citizenship and more than $10K in overseas accounts (that's the total of all accounts) has been required to send the US Treas...
Lol, they tax that too. http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Expatriation-Tax
Closer to $35 million actually (at 2011/2012 tax brackets)
I wonder how well that depreciation could be mitigated by shorting USD.
There is no "key level" in Bitcoin. At a low level, there are coins which are constantly destroyed and created. At a high level, there are wallets which carry a balance (addresses are only used t...
This is partially correct, but you're forgetting about the Suspicious Activity Report for wire transfers greater than $5,000 ($2,000 in the case of MSBs like coinbase.com). See my answer to quest...
You're absolutely correct. The US tax preparation/compliance sector is massive and wields quite a bit of power.
I think theft is a bad thing. If I would have to pay a $5 toll if I wanted to use a certain private highway, and later on that day decide to give another $5 to a charity in line with my beliefs...
Millions of people don't pay taxes that they "owe" every year, and don't get caught. Just tread carefully, live modestly, and keep your conscience clean by not supporting the US warfare/welfare s...
Great read, and incredibly helpful. Comments and replies included. Dblcross please keep dumping your knowledge on this subreddit, and thank you.
The person in your example would have gain on the sale of the 1 BTC. He or she may qualify for a casualty loss on the other 19 BTC, but that depends on the specific facts. Either way, it's an ent...
what about good old hodling?
Here is my question. If I purchase 20 btc for 20k, and some time later, sell 1 btc for 20k, but the other 19 btc have been lost or stolen, what is my tax liability?
Taxes are taxes, it doesn't matter if you misunderstood or flat out lied. You will have to pay the correct amount of tax. However, your knowledge/understanding/intent matters for penalties (both ...
You need to consult with a good CPA or tax attorney. Large operations like yours create some complicated tax issues.
The distinction between a community homeowner's association (which already exist) and a small town begins to get thin. The former collect dues, maintain local roads and playgrounds, and many of t...
These are really good points.
No, he meant "regressive." Progressive and regressive are words used to describe tax systems by how they distribute the burden. People who don't know what they're talking about often describe the...
perhaps he meant repressive
It's actually one of the reasons I think major tax code simplification will never happen - all those accounting and legal jobs, poof!
CPA Here, this checks out, the only thing I wish to add to this would be that please be as conservative as you can with filing your taxes with BTC Gains. Why? because the dust has not completel...
Question: How do I determine the cost basis of a bitcoin if I trade it for something that is not simultaneously offered in USD? How will the IRS determine which exchange rate I should have used f...
We have a very progressive tax system.
Thank you for doing this. Hoping you can answer a quick question of mine: What if I bought 100BTC at $10, then sold half of them at $1000 per BTC. Then before the tax year was over I reinvested t...
Wow USA is just crazy Congratulations IRS
I use a house to host my bitcoin mining operation. It's very expensive to keep up. I CPU mine Bitcoins. My losses are in the thousands monthly. I'm glad that my bitcoin mining operation is tax de...
May the odds be ever in your favor
I would assume fair market value of the goods bought and sold is what is used here.
Its like un-managable code. Time to refractor the government.
Could Fair Market Value at Cristmas be a phrase, please?
I can't believe your actually useful service is so far below the "taxation is theft" comments...
27000 pages of tax code, yeah I would say it is a bit confusing.
I'm 12 and what is this?
Not enough - the US, uniquely among countries, requires citizens to pay taxes even if resident in another country, and already paying taxes there. You have to renounce citizenship.
Immigration lawyers may be cheaper in the long run.
You should definitely at least look into renouncing. Not sure where you are domiciled, but this FATCA business could be a shit-storm in the making. Enough to make US citizenship more trouble tha...
Yes, but are there taxes on the moon?
This is what they mean when they say that U.S. dollars are backed by men with guns.
... ...Are all US subjects just supposed to come out of the womb with an understanding of the tax code now? Kid's not even old enough to vote yet for heaven's sake. Wasn't there at some point s...
Yeah. I'm just gonna take my chances on number 6 and call it good. If they're going to extort money from me, I'm going to make them do it the hard way.
If you want to make it really complicated, you can look at the intersection of Bitcoin and poker. To be fair, most of the complication is on the poker side; the way the IRS handles gambling inc...
What if you made an honest effort to comply but your records are a mess and you're generally just incompetent? Not saying I am but I've always been curious. I assume tens of thousands of people b...
But freed markets don't enrich the aristocracy...
Here is what the IRS has to say: http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Taxation-of-Nonresident-Aliens-1 Seems like the biggest question for them is whether your income originated in the US. In that ca...
Best guess from a non-lawyer, non-accountant law student: If I were you I'd do my best to determine the fair market value of each newly acquired asset on the date you acquired it. If you exchange...
My guess would be yes, because the dollar is legal tender and bitcoin is not. Thus to the IRS's eyes, extreme depreciation of a dollar is no different than appreciation in value of all non-dollar...
tl;dr - emigrate
wow, packing my bags to move to nl
My understanding is: On the purchase of the 1 Bitcoin, the basis on your remaining 0.875 Bitcoin is now $87.50 (basis per Bitcoin remains $100), since reducing 12.5% of this lot means the origi...
Yes, I would say that you are required to file an FBAR. Technically you would be required to file FBARs for previous years where the value of your foreign accounts was greater than $10,000. This ...
So just to be clear, if I sold some Bitcoins on MtGox last year and the amount in USD was greater than 10k, 1) Do I need to file an FBAR? 2) Am I already in trouble for not knowing I needed t...
Using First In First Out, your basis on the.125 BTC would be $100 and the Realization would be $200, so the realized gain would be $12.50. Now later on when you went through that whole bitcoin yo...
FinCEN doesn't work with the IRS though.
Thanks for the post. I'm a low volume seller on localbitcoins.com, but I still have technically sold thousands of dollars worth of BTC. However, at the time of selling, I re-buy an amount of BTC ...
not even shy about that racket eh?
Yep. Welcome to /r/bitcoin
Snowden just sent us all their info...WHAT NOW BITCHES?
Related question: you think financial transaction to/from coinbase are not monitored? Think their infrastructure is 100% secure?
While this is a scary tangled web and potentially true, I think the best course for everyone right now would be to ignore all of this altogether until it is formally addressed by the clown people...
Ooh, only two comparisons of taxes to rape so far!
what if I'm black?
I'd plan for $150 per hour. I'm an attorney billed at $160/hr and have hired an accountant for $150/hr for our btc stuff and will pay him in btc. More experienced attorneys and/or larger firms wi...
Which is almost enough to allow him to hide from the enemies he made.
As a dual citizen who has never lived in the US, this really makes me want to renounce my citizenship.
Boy, nice racket you guys have going!
That would no longer be what a lot of people consider to be government. If you can freely choose your service provider for security, dispute resolution, roads etc then those organisations would j...
You're absolutely correct. As I mentioned in my post, the taxation of bitcoin as a non-currency is the biggest threat to its future.
just pay taxes on your taxes
Please don’t let the lobbyists slow bitcoin with unfair tax rules and regulations: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1ud0ri/please_dont_let_the_lobbyists_slow_bitcoin_with/
The comment you said that to pretty well summed it up. Taxation is slavery, and voluntarism would be superior to taxation in literally any endeavor you can think of. So yes, taxes are a very ...
I too have been mining and trading a lot through the years, not realizing the complexity of captial gains tax accounting. Basically once I read about the wash sale rules for short term capital ga...
If you want to play the audit lottery, the odds are in your favor. But as mentioned in the post, I'm not sure the consequences are worth the chance.
Assuming that the FMV of the smartphone is $300 in your example, then yes. The purchaser would have a loss of $700. That loss will be netted against the purchaser's other gains at the end of the ...
It should be "paying taxes on bitcoins is too hard so I should pay someone to do it for me." ;)
International tax is not really my area, but generally a non-US citizen, non-US resident does not have to pay taxon US capital gains. You should consult with a tax adviser to see if this applies ...
You will never know that a SAR was filed against you, at least not untl a special agent is knocking on your door ;)
NSA just sent the IRS all your info.
Thanks for your comment. The rules for wash sales are provided under section 1091 of the IRC and specifically address only "shares of stock or securities." Therefore, they would apply only if bit...
Dude, renounce your citizenship and see if Snowden needs a roomate!! It'll be much easier than trying to figure out this nightmare of an abortion.
As they now stand they are nothing less than a cluster f*ck of nonsense...: (
Of which he had to pay $99.9 million in taxes. Sorry, couldn't resist...
Looks like there will be a few and they will help. I'm also building bitcointaxes.info to help consolidate trades across MtGox, Bitstamp, BTC-e, and coinbase. It will let you choose specific...
Are banks required to inform you that they filed suspicious activity or would this come at a COMPLETE surprise? I'm guessing surprise, considering they think you are a criminal and want to catch ...
Except, don't leave it lying around, lest it be used against you. Keep that shit encrypted somewhere. Somewhere away from, say, your computer equipment in case the government wants to confisc...
Your comment on wash sales is contrary to bitcoinaccountant who had posted some information on reddit, as well as by Greg Broiles in a video from last year. I'm not saying you're wrong, I hav...
I can sum up the real takeaway from it: > Keep doing whatever you want to do. If suits come knocking don't own > up to anything or claim ownership of any crypto or accou...
Check dates. The no-tax ruling was more recent (October?) and unequivocal.
Unfortunately I don't get to read everything I'd like to. After some searching I found a Spiegel article that had this to say: > ... In June, the Finance Ministry declared that profit...
After reading all this, all I got was "paying taxes on bitcoins is too hard so just don't worry about it".
Yeah, Im just gonna go with that. Come and get me taxman.
Seriously? You've been on reddit for a month and you haven't seen that? It's so old I don't even have it bookmarked anymore. But I Googled "germany bitcoin taxes" - so here: https://www.golds...
Is your name Andy Dufresne?
The Netherlands. We have a capital return levy (vermogensrendementsheffing) which assumes you make a 4% return on your assets, regardless of their actual performance. 30% of this 4% is tax, so in...
You'd spend more time trying to calculate your tax than you would in prison for getting caught not paying.
No, just open source it and de-monopolize it. Unpack the services and let people choose who to provide each.
That's why one of the reports is called FBAR; Fucked Beyond All Recognition.
Sweden actually has this in tax law. You can declare the cost basis or choose a cost basis of 10%. It is used if you can't remember cost basis or if the actual cost basis was below 10% (for a s...
This is a very thorough and helpful post - thanks so much for writing it. > Realization occurs when you exchange bitcoins for any type of other > property; such as cash, merchan...
Make sure to donate on a high market day ;-)
Germany is one such. They recently and specifically exempted Bitcoin from taxation (capital gains or income) if held for longer than one year.
What if I sell my Bitcoins in order to pay my taxes... Do I need to pay taxes on my realized gains again the next year?
Yes, you offset losses and gains at the end of the year when figuring your total net gain or loss. Just keep track of each individual transaction and your tax prep software will take care of the ...
Curious, what the chances are of getting caught not paying/filing taxes.
Prison? Not likely. Unless someone intentionally evades taxes - and goes to great lengths to do so. People have failed to report business earnings multiple years back-to-back. The typical respo...
If he sells an egg for 1 BTC, he can afford the taxes...
Our taxes are going towards things most people would find disagreeable. We have a very regressive tax system. This country is all sorts of long term fucked.
But then how do we pay for the murder of children abroad?
I do, yes. I think there should be alternative systems, perhaps more local taxes where you can more easily choose with your feet. Not a federal tax, and certainly not a federal income tax. It's m...
14 yo tax evader. Yeah, that makes alot of sense.
You had better determine your federal gift tax liabilities on this transaction!
Do you (and the people upvoting this) think taxes are a bad thing?
I take it we can also offset losses against gains? I buy 1 BTC at $100 and sold at $900...... Then I felt I was missing the martlet and bought 1 BTC at the peak of $1300 and then panic sold at ...
What country is that?
How much money is a reasonably priced cpa/tax attorney going to cost me per hour? I don't have the patience nor the time to deal with this taxing nonsense but I'm no BTC millionaire. Am I going t...
Seriously. How about we just tell the tax man to go fuck off entirely. Solves that mess right away.
Scenario: 1) I have 1 Bitcoin that I bought for $100. 2) I buy a $25 gyft card when Bitcoin exchanges for for $200 and so spend .125 Bitcion. 3) Simultaneously, I buy .125 Bitcoin at $200 or $25 ...
Havelockinvestments.com GBLSE Bitcoin Global Litecoin Global Bitfunder Cryptostocks These are/were all stock exchanges. So now you know. Capital inflows will raise the exchange rate...
That day can't come soon enough. As the OP said: "the power to tax is the power to destroy" . . .and, in fact, nothing else.
Like the fucking Gestapo... Jesus...
I've seen a response from them saying that they are not going to issue 1099s, so I think the answer is no. Obviously that can change at any moment. They are still subject to reporting requirement...
yes but since you donated it, you should actually receive a tax benefit
It can be almost guaranteed that they are not/will not. Banks do not report your deposits/withdrawals to the IRS (over 10k withdrawal they do). It's always up to the citizen to report their own g...
I may have written down when they were acquired and for what price in my personal docs somewhere but that doesn't seem like it would be valid proof.
Probably zero, yes. Definitely not fair market value.
If his brother doesn't tell him. Would they basis be zero? Or Fair Market Value at Christmas? Because he received a gift worth that amount.
] VERIFIED: Jackten → $10 USD (m฿ 12.20718 millibitcoins) → dblcross121 ] ]
But still a very nice read for non-Americans. My TL;DR: DOCUMENT EVERYTHING. HAVE A SPREADSHEET OF TRANSACTIONS
You did an excellent job of presenting everything. I really appreciate it. +/u/bitcointip $10 verify
Oh definitely. The guy who blew the whistle on secret Swiss bank accounts received a reward of $100 million dollars.
> There's also that nice reward the IRS will pay them based on how > much money the IRS ultimately recovers from you Of course. . . Wait what?! That's a thing? Learn som...
What if, for example, the US dollar suffered severe depreciation? Our money is worth more, so is it subject to a capital gains-like tax? I feel like the problem is that people are trying to lab...
What happens in this scenario? Individual buys 10 btc at $100 basis. He then gambles 10BTC and wins 9 additional BTC. BTC Market price becomes $1000. What is his basis on the 9 extra BTC? I...
You might be thinking of the wash sales rules, which do not currently apply to bitcoins. Using your example, the person would have a gain of $1,000 on the sale. Then he or she would now own bitco...
Breathe a little easier if you're a citizen of a country that doesn't have capital gains tax. Bitcoin is international and so is Reddit, we could use a per-country comparison of tax consideration...
You aren't the only one, unfortunately. The IRS expects people who don't know their basis to make a reasonable and good faith effort of determining it. If it's really impossible, the safest bet i...
No wonder it's taking governments so long to figure out how they're going to regulate and control it. Eventually it's looking like that will be ever more difficult. Especially considering you can...
You are not exempt from paying taxes just because you are under the age of 18.
Surely if you sell your bitcoins and buy them back then you are back in the investment? I mean if you bought at $100, sold at $1100, then the price dropped and you bough $1100 worth at $500, what...
This is amazing, thanks. +/u/bitcointip $5 verify
In theory, a person who has lost bitcoins would be allowed a casualty loss. However, that loss would be equal to the amount of his or her basis (so it would probably be much less than millions of...
tl;dr bitcoin are tax free yay!
And we haven't even addressed the issue of multiple copies of the private keys. What if two people agree they both own the coins? And what if the coins are locked in escrow or with multi-party si...
And if one isn't a US citizen and is also a resident of a country without capital gains tax?
I've moved my coins around so much since then I have no way of knowing what address was used back then :/
What if I am under 18? I don't pay taxes and all of my Bitcoin is from mining.
What about the taxation in this scenario where BTC is the only currency in play? Farmer sold an egg to a boy for 1 BTC Farmer buy lemonade from boy for .5BTC How much dollars do they exactly pa...
If I was an early investor and made many purchases at a basis from $10-$100... and if feel it is way too complicated to calculate gains because of the number of trades I have done throughout th...
TL;DR: The men with the guns want your money. Give it to them or they will lock you up. Resist and they will shoot you. Good day, citizen.
Is Coinbase reporting anything to the IRS yet?
Also I have had a lot more bitcoins scammed than I have ever kept. Can I claim a loss of millions of dollars because those coins are worth more ?
Yeah, midway through explaining how mining is really part of the issuance of the currency he sort of just glossed over. Unfortunately I live in a fairly rural area so I will probably have to hire...
> 8: WHAT IS MY BASIS? > > Generally, basis is equal to cost. So, if you purchase 1 BTC for > $500, then your basis is $500. You can also add to this amount any ...
It seems a lot easier just to get rid of government.
I would've liked to seen the look on that guy's face. Bitcoin taxation issues are way over the head of your average H&R Block preparer. I would suggest you go with a CPA or tax attorney.
I'm having a hard time talking to my grandpa who is a financial adviser and insurance salesman about bitcoin because he doesn't like that there's little regulation. I plan on showing him this.
There are. Stocks are bought by Bitcoins and dividends are Bitcoins. Kinda cool. So what happens then? Example: https://www.havelockinvestments.com/fund.php?symbol=AM100
He said cause it's cool. Is that a basis? I'm thinking of trading it for some rookie cards I want so I don't have to tax then or yes?
What a great post, thanks for this. As someone who has been investing, day trading, and mining in bitcoin and other crypto currencies I've been dreading how to handle taxes, or honestly even how ...
Reddit has a wiki system. Maybe that'd be a good place for it. You'd have to ask the mods for help in putting it there though. Edit: I'm really not sure why I'm being downvoted for this suggest...
One possibility is to find the transfer on the blockchain using your wallet's address, which would provide proof of your acquisition date.
I'm assuming this is meant for the USA?
No joke, the tax system is fucked.
I should've addressed this issue in my post, sorry. You have the same basis in the bitcoin as your brother did. This means you need to ask him what his basis was (keeping in mind the rules for de...
I bought my coins a while back with cash in person so I have no record of when I bought them or what I paid. How can I prove I've held them for over a year? Is there a way I can document holding ...
It didn't look this bad when I first wrote it in onenote, but after posting it, yeah it's a beast. I wish I could think of a cleaner way to present it.
Is gain realized if you donate bitcoin to somewhere that accepts it?
I'm not really sure I follow your example. I haven't heard of stocks that issue dividends in the form of cryptocurrencies. In any case, it sounds like you do not know your basis in the bitcoins...
See also bitcointax.info .
I'm working on it, but figured I'd share with Reddit first.
Leave it to the damned IRS to tempt me to intentionally delete my wallet just to escape the headaches. I wonder how many new millionaires will be going to prison or will be fined silly because ...
Excellent information and detail. Thank you!
Im 14 and have Bitcoin I got from my brother for christmas, wat do?
Okay great, so how about the stocks I bought WITH bitcoin. In all of your examples you assume I bought X number of bitcoin and realized gains on X But now lets play the game where I bought X ...
.......CONTINUED FROM POST ABOVE..... TOPIC 5: DEDUCTIONS * #19: #23: WHAT KIND OF EXPENSES CAN I DEDUCT AS AN INVESTOR? * You are permitted to deduct investment related expenses as an "ite...
.......CONTINUED FROM POST ABOVE..... TOPIC 3 CHARACTER #13: #14: ARE MY GAINS "CAPITAL GAINS?" Probably. The first hurdle to clear is the classification of bitcoins as a capital asset, becau...
.......CONTINUED FROM POST ABOVE..... TOPIC 2: RECOGNITION #7: HOW DO I CALCULATE MY GAIN OR LOSS? * Gain or loss is calculated first on each bitcoin transaction, then on an aggregate basis b...
EDIT: On March 25, 2014 the IRS released Notice 2014-21 addressing the taxation of bitcoins. This post was updated on March 26, 2014 to reflect the IRS's positions contained in the Notice. Last...
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1uccfz/i_am_a_tax_attorney_here_are_my_answers_to_the/