- feeds
- popular
- recent
- reader
- about
- story
- technologies
- what is rss
- connect
- dmca
- contact
- Feed Preview Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead : programming
/u/KajMagnus on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
People argue that the MVC graphics is flawed. I'm thinking it doesn't look like a MVC diagram in general, but looks like a MVC diagram for a framework that supports two way data bindings, like An...
/u/a_blue_ducks on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
granted you made this comment months ago, I laughed at it today and applaud you for that.
/u/ObamaRobot on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
You're welcome!
/u/jordanyaker on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
I propose that "thanks, MVC" becomes the new "thanks, obamacare". Terrible thunderstorms in the midwest causing loss of property and chaos? Thanks, MVC. Poverty and illiteracy in America? Thanks,...
/u/ponzao on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Many (including me) believe that the controllers in MVC should not contain business logic.
/u/jdickey on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Sure, and they'd patent calculus if they could. The way the patent system is being run these days, particularly in but by no means uniquely to the US, they'd probably get one. Or sixteen.
/u/balefrost on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
It doesn't help that MVC means one of two completely different things. I sometimes have to ask "Do you mean Web MVC or Classical MVC?"
/u/g00d4m on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
The diagrams are for illustrative purposes. They aren't exact depictions of Facebook's design. The MVC one shows what is called a facade controller. Large systems will not use a facade controller...
/u/ on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
A dispatching mechanism can be used in combination with MVC, so basically the title sounds like a setup of MVC as something in opposition of dispatching. This of course is not true. Flux seems ...
/u/Ertaipt on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Maybe HTML is so successful because of its shit tolerance level. It is far from perfect but it still looks better than most of the other contenders...
/u/Ertaipt on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Their example might be biased but they do know what they are talking about. And very few companies have software development at the scale of Facebook's, so they might be right about that, but i...
/u/freework on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Every single 'alternative MVC' that I've seen is just the MVC pattern with differently named parts.
/u/Ertaipt on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Or maybe, just maybe, they know what they are talking about. A code-base incredibly complex that simply revealed the flaws in MVC when used in massive scales like Facebook. There are very tal...
/u/InconsiderateBastard on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
In traditional MVC, the view updates from the model. The controller can signal for the view to update, but it doesn't have to go through the controller to do the update. What you are describing...
/u/imfineny on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
I think its simply a result of moving to a purely ajax driven UI. Eventually you only end up with calls to data stores.
/u/ on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Reason #1 : Zuckerberg is ageist, and so fosters an environment that makes newbie mistakes. Reason #2: Facebook wants to present itself as a "new microsoft or google" and to do that they have t...
/u/CanYouDigItHombre on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
I watched the fb video and it actually seems really good. I search benchmarks and it appears to be way faster then other frameworks. IMO angular is shit compared to flux/react js although I alway...
/u/ on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
People generally do MVC wrong :)
/u/ on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
You're ruining their anti-MVC circlejerk!
/u/krizo on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
I don't think anybody here saying that MVC should always be used. What people here are complaining about is that before you say something "doesn't scale" you should probably make sure you're usin...
/u/crusoe on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
So they are still using MVC, just using a event bus to remove the mess that registering/unregistering handlers all over the place can cause. So still MVC, just using event bus instead of regist...
/u/crusoe on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
So your dispatcher is simply an event bus then. Why not call it that instead of making up a new term? There are many existing event bus impls for javascript. As for using a event bus to decoupl...
/u/notorious1212 on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
I hear what you're saying, but this was pretty poorly presented and compared. Moving from MVP to MVVM to MVC and PHP to C# to Ruby has pretty much taught me there isn't really and end all for sof...
/u/notorious1212 on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
well. yeah. it obviously doesn't scale, so why bother?
/u/crusoe on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Facebook boasting on how they hacked Dalvik to run their bloated app on older Android phones https://www.facebook.com/notes/facebook-engineering/under-the-hood-dalvik-patch-for-facebook-for-and...
/u/notorious1212 on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
They should be. You can use the controller to feed all the required data to the view, and just have your view present that data. Though, there's not a hard rule where the runtime or compiler woul...
/u/crusoe on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
They used code generation to convert their javascript libs into java, and it generated over 65000 java classes, which exceeds a limit on android 2.3 or 2.2. So they discovered they could hack the...
/u/notorious1212 on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Oh I see. Apparently you can start off following a pattern and turn it into spaghetti code pretty easily. The thing I want to know is how that might be avoided with Flux?
/u/brobits on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
if your view is updating your model, you have violated the MVC pattern. the directional flow of data is a constraint of the pattern. although angular includes a model and view, angular is not M...
/u/CanYouDigItHombre on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Actually there is a distinct difference between MVC and Flux however I'm a little unsure how people generally do MVC.
/u/floydophone on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
I meant that it's easy for them to be sent over a network, or saved and replayed. But the comparison with win32 message queue is interesting, but I would say that it's not quite right, since wi...
/u/Gibodean on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Every breakthrough they PUBLISH, yes. Once everybody else knows something, that's a perfect time to publish if you want to maintain your competitive advantage. Publishing before everyone else k...
/u/fuzzynyanko on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
> I'm always interested to see how other organizations are solving > their technical problems, even if they wouldn't be able to solve > mine. For me, the war stories help. ...
/u/wettererection on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
We just need to take it step by step.
/u/ on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
I should add, you don't need to use MVC to have a good app. But if you decide to go with MVC, make sure you're getting the benefits of it (since they are really great). Otherwise the framework mi...
/u/tchaffee on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
> he can overwork them without them telling him to fuck off. There is probably far more truth to that than anyone realizes. Industry wide, not just Zuck.
/u/ on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
It only doesn't make sense if you're not used to that particular model of MVC for web apps. Every single MVC framework for web apps seems to use those words differently.
/u/ on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
A good case study for MVC is in spreadsheet programs. Some were written where the spreadsheet view was the data model. When it came time to add graphs and charts, these programs had issues exposi...
/u/JoseJimeniz on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
While clicking that image link, i'm thinking: > You better not show me the MVC triangle. Or I'm going to smack you. /smack How do you have multiple views with the same model an...
/u/InconsiderateBastard on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
You mistakenly disconnected the view from the model. Controller manipulates Model. View pulls information from Model to display it.
/u/coderrix on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
I dont think I've ever seen one controller for all those models ever. Failing at MVC I see...
/u/Bossman1086 on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Yeah, I'm pretty sure this isn't fixed. Or maybe it was and they have a new one.
/u/Genesis2001 on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Just a question, how well does "asp.net/mvc" fit into the "original MVC that GUI developers" have used? (Just curious; open question to anyone)
/u/ on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
How do you test that errors are correctly handled?
/u/rayred on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
"I don't want to pretend that a web app is an event oriented UI on the server side." Thank you for that, I tell people this literally all of the time.
/u/skepticalDragon on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
I feel like a barrel of Mexican jumping beans would just be a really annoying self-perpetuating rainstick. Even just the imaginary sound in my head is irritating me.
/u/badguy212 on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
I wonder how their FLUX diagram would look like with 10 views and 10 actions. My guess it would be so much more uglier than the MVC one they show. (you cannot tell me that a web application wil...
/u/roodammy44 on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
It's a problem at most startups. When you start coding, you hire devs who work for peanuts and code features as fast as you can type, before the whole thing goes under. If the startup becomes...
/u/balefrost on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
I love it! That's incredibly clever. I don't know much about CLR bytecode, but I do know a little bit about the .class file format. The downside to your approach is that it would still be a str...
/u/danad83 on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
I agree. The graphic they used for MVC was extremely complicated and did not make any sense. It seems that they did not implement the design pattern correctly. I don't think the graphic they us...
/u/balefrost on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
I didn't realize that one of those links was a link to the talk. I'll watch it when I get a chance. > if you introduce a layer of indirection (a serializable logical > event queue)�...
/u/ on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
how many inventions do you think are made by people who only use "the right tool for the job"? i'm glad there are people out there who are inventing and trying to improve despite the circlejerk...
/u/steelcitykid on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
I think we really need to set the bounds of this pun thread.
/u/sh0rug0ru on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
It's not Sun's fault. Model 2 was invented along with Struts by Craig McClanahan in the Jakarta project which operated under the Apache umbrella. Struts was enormously successful because develope...
/u/ on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
"What's important" is my health and happiness. Anyone who does a job for fun is just getting screwed by their company, jobs are only for money. I think he prefers sub 30s because he can overwork ...
/u/RichardFingers on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
I think most people looked at the diagrams and immediately dismissed it. But I definitely agree with you. Seems like their actions are query/command objects and the stores are query/command handl...
/u/Cilph on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
indeterminate.
/u/naughty on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
There is no 'real' (as in well defined) MVC. These exact same discussions all happened decades ago. There's a reason SmallTalkers don't really use MVC today. The original concerns were more abo...
/u/Silhouette on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Their philosophy is (in)famously to "move fast and break things", and they reportedly have a strong preference for hiring young (aka inexperienced) developers. If your entire approach to softwa...
/u/Silhouette on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
> Not only that but I thought Views and Models were deliberately > separated, and only the Controller communicated between the two? That sounds more like the back-end librari...
/u/KingPickle on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Singles in your area are dying to meet you!
/u/fabzter on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Focus on MVVM (haha what a bunch of buzzwords, I feel stupid). It's the thing that really really helped me make mantainable code.
/u/jij on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
https://xkcd.com/927/
/u/peroyo on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
They're not, react.js is unidirectional unless you explicitly set up two-way binding yourself. The point of flux is that the view calls the dispatcher which propogates changes to the store, which...
/u/Silhouette on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Anything to differentiate themselves from everyone else, I guess.
/u/carlfish on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
I blame Sun. The MVC paradigm was originally invented for desktop GUIs. Your single GUI view would have multiple controllers, each independently bound to their own widgets, and each connected t...
/u/bakuretsu on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Let us not forget that while Facebook has contributed many very interesting and useful things to the web development community, not everything that works for Facebook works for not-Facebook. Th...
/u/Legolas-the-elf on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Reminds me of graceful degradation / progressive enhancement. People spent years extolling the virtues of graceful degradation and telling people to start with a solid foundation that worked fo...
/u/KingPickle on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
I think it's more agile!
/u/ on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
So a company whose motto is "move fast and break things", who brags that new hires put code into production in their first week, and whose founder is openly contemptuous of anyone over 30 has bui...
/u/ on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Open a link on reddit, and the article discusses the comments on the articles link on reddit. Mind blown.
/u/SCombinator on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Many models? One Controller? Guess Facebook fail MVC 101.
/u/TheQuietestOne on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
> Suppose you need two reactions to occur in response to a single > event. But you need those two reactions to occur in a predictable > order. The way we've handled thes...
/u/floydophone on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
If anything Flux takes more influence from CQRS than it does MVC. If you watch the actual talk you'll see it's largely about time, not code organization. Your code is organized in a similar manne...
/u/KumbajaMyLord on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
After watching the presentation and taking a look at the TodoApp sample code I'm still a bit confused what the goal of flux is. It really does seem like MVC with an emphasize of the model as th...
/u/floydophone on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
One of the things that graphic was trying to convey was that MVC does not compose (unless you consider component architectures like React MVC -- but no one can agree on what MVC even means anymor...
/u/Otis_Inf on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
I know the picture comes from wikipedia, but isn't the diagram you posted also not really correct? I mean, the model doesn't update anything, it's consumed by the view and manipulated by the cont...
/u/gleno on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Someone mentions bytecode! Quick, to the upvotorium! One day we shall have it. And it will be glorious!
/u/BraveSirRobin on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
All the way to infinity (but not beyond).
/u/ on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Actually, that "twisted" version of MVC is much closer in line with the original Smalltalk Model-view-controller philosophy, as also embodied in frameworks like Cocoa for Objective-C. If anythi...
/u/ on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
In my opinion, compiling to JavaScript is the end of JavaScript if it becomes popular enough to displace hand-written JavaScript. It's trivial to target more than one output format if you just ha...
/u/abienz on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Not only that but I thought Views and Models were deliberately separated, and only the Controller communicated between the two? Or at least it's one way traffic from Model to View.
/u/Tynach on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Personally? Because I can't wait to see Facebook burn.
/u/ on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Rust's pattern matching is unique in the sense that it's implemented based on the concerns of a low-level language. I know that's not what the parent comment was talking about. Patterns have a ...
/u/olalonde on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Ok, am I pushing the limit with this pun?
/u/PasswordIsntHAMSTER on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
If Rust is what got you excited about pattern matching, you're late to the party. ML had the exact same shit 40 years ago, as have several well-known languages since then.
/u/bfoo on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Well, there is no rule for MVC, that a controller updates just one model. Usually, in a server-side web application you only have one model and one view that is producing the response of a reques...
/u/ravinglunatic on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Fair enough but what problem is this going to solve for me? I don't work at facebook and my time on earth is limited.
/u/jdickey on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
That's what happens when you deliberately filter out applicants with work/life experience.
/u/jdickey on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
> All this has happened before, and all this will happen again. How many more confirmations of Facebook's having jumped the shark energetically enough to make a barrel of Mexican jump...
/u/jdickey on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Imagine a hospital that refused to hire doctors over 35. How many qualified, experienced doctors do you think would apply to be on staff, and how many patients would go to such a hospital if they...
/u/ on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
> This sort of architecture is rather trivial to implement in > languages like Erlang I have a feeling though that this was mostly about Javascript. What you say will be possible ...
/u/lachlanhunt on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
> other stupid designs cooked up by facebook, such as their infamous > android hack to get their bloated client running on older android > versions Could you provide a lin...
/u/petepete on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Here are some of Trygve Reenskaug 's notes about it.
/u/ on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Where can I learn proper MVC?
/u/a_sleeping_lion on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
It seems like this is more related to the MVC (or MVP, MVVP, etc) that has come about as client-side javascript frameworks have become more popular. The attempt to make client-side javascript eas...
/u/redwall_hp on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
That's not MVC. That's a client-side mess masquerading as MVC. A controller talks to a model, and never a view. A view may submit input back to the controller, which then hands the appropriate ...
/u/fisherwebdev on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
The switch statements are in the stores, not the dispatcher.
/u/ on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
To be fair, while I don't quite buy Flux, React is pretty awesome.
/u/a_sleeping_lion on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
I think they may be trying to compare against the twisted versions of MVC found in client-side javascript frameworks. It could be argued that they are not using real MVC patterns, but that doesn'...
/u/OCedHrt on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Instead of the view going back to the model, the view can go back to the controller as an action, and it now looks just like Flux.
/u/fisherwebdev on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
A controller-view can retrieve the state of multiple stores in Flux and pass those states down to its children as props. There is no need to couple a view and a store. A store should encapsulate ...
/u/Daniel15 on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
How would you describe two-way bindings with a framework like Angular ? The model and view are bound bidirectionally (changing a model property updates the view, change data in text fields update...
/u/ on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
nope the dispatcher is usually only a few lines of code. The handler handles ideally only one sort of event. This linked code looks like a misunderstanding of the concept.
/u/jingc09 on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
> A controller can send commands to the model to update the model's > state (e.g., editing a document). It can also send commands to its > associated view to change t...
/u/Eirenarch on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
I expect them to discover component programming. It seems like they are on that path with Flux. They are moving fast, just a few months ago they discovered static typing.
/u/xenarthran_salesman on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
This quote: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/25nrb5/facebook_mvc_does_not_scale_use_flux_instead/chjbuic reveals a little bit about why.
/u/tchaffee on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
It's almost as if the founder believes young and inexperienced engineers are better...
/u/awj on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
I'm still using the parts of backbone.js that make sense for each task. Is backbone not cool anymore? Well, fuck it, I'm too busy getting shit done to be cool.
/u/tchaffee on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
This is what I came here to say. When you refuse to hire people over 30 you make a lot of "break throughs" that look pretty stupid to those with experience.
/u/ on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
user -> like_event -> database-handler success? yes-> stored-event -> notify_friend_handler -> render_success_handler no -> db_error_event -> notify_error_handler *EDIT format ...
/u/ on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Yep no fan of Facebook coding either. However at least some one is talking about alternatives patterns.
/u/OffColorCommentary on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Things like asm.js are exactly what needs to happen between here and somewhere sensible, though. We can't suddenly have all of the browsers in the world support a native code format and all the s...
/u/Tiak on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
But I think the idea is that, rather than being coupled to data structures, you build stores according to what is useful. You might have a FriendRelationStore which encapsulates mutual friendship...
/u/iBlag on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
But would there be any differential between what people did in the past and what they're doing now?
/u/KillerCodeMonky on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Completely non-derivative work!
/u/frankle on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
I would be surprised if that weren't the case.
/u/xenarthran_salesman on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
> I want to stress the importance of being young and technical," > Facebook's CEO Mark Zuckerberg, 28, told an audience at a Stanford > University startup conference in�...
/u/lat3ralus_ on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
This is how I prefer to call actions on disparate systems, aggregate results, and notify the view (using Akka, ZeroMQ with an Angular.js frontend). We still have a controller and view for handlin...
/u/Mechakoopa on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Seriously? If you're going to do a dispatcher like that, just use hooks and let listeners define their own parameters. Key/bucket with function pointers. Someone has to maintain that god awful sw...
/u/frankle on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
So the controller is not responsible for passing data to the view, but rather, the model is? I have read that the controller being a two-way intermediary between the model and the view is a per...
/u/jingc09 on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Yeah, that was a tricky slide, partly because there's not a lot of consensus for what MVC is exactly - lots of people have different ideas about what it is. What we're really arguing against is b...
/u/Tiak on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
They'll be integrating new and exciting techniques!
/u/teresko on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Actually, the model should be a single layer (just like presentation layer, where views and controllers live). Your controllers and view would interact with services from model layer. Said servic...
/u/Mechakoopa on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
But dispatcher implies a task oriented architecture instead of an action oriented architecture, so it's totally different...
/u/jingc09 on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
We have some documentations and examples up already (see the links at http://facebook.github.io/react/blog/2014/05/06/flux.html ) - hope those are helpful, but we'll be expanding with more info o...
/u/Lando_Calrissian on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Thanks for the clarification, it's really interesting to me how companies this size scale their solutions. I would be interested in seeing the big picture, especially with the store, but I know y...
/u/Cynical_Walrus on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Rust's pattern matching is actually a pretty neat concept.
/u/Lando_Calrissian on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
I think you are largely correct, the dispatcher just seems a beefed up controller. This really seems to more of a business practice than a programming one, which makes sense considering Facebooks...
/u/bilog78 on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
I understood that reference ;-)
/u/ECrownofFire on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Controlled by a giant switch statement? Just say it's an interpreter for a DSL.
/u/jingc09 on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
The dispatcher is actually not analogous to the controller, because it has no business logic. We use the same dispatcher implementation for multiple features. All it does is pass actions through ...
/u/brobits on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
why are facebook's MVC views and models bidirectional? the view should not be sending any information to the model, it's a read-only state until the user interacts with the controller
/u/fhayde on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Those guys never show up, they're too busy making small talk .... I'll show myself the door.
/u/ on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
My problem is that at the end of the day/http request, it all boils down to Javascript. TypeScript, asm.js, it all comes down to the browser interpreting Javascript. Instead of the browser inte...
/u/ on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
How do you handle errors in this model? For example, what if there is a database invariant that prevents the "like" to be registered. How does the frontend learn about the invariant violation?
/u/balefrost on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Here's the twist: Javascript IS the bytecode .
/u/balefrost on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Your description is good, but what you describe isn't an actor system, it's an event bus. The even bus could be implemented in terms of actors, but actors themselves are different. Actors are l...
/u/WhoTookPlasticJesus on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
I feel like every non-hardware "breakthrough" Facebook publishes is really just Facebook developers independently discovering what other developers have done for years. Maybe at their next confer...
/u/ on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Honestly at this point I'm just waiting for a standardized bytecode for manipulating a standardized, well-formed HTML document so I can write whatever script I want with however much type safety ...
/u/balefrost on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
...but, in this case, Facebook re-invented classical MVC, and gave it another name.
/u/ on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
I agree completely. In practice, large web apps like the ones my company is responsible for that follow the MVC pattern end up getting view models in some form or another anyways, even though it'...
/u/balefrost on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
And... here's the thing... their diagram for Flux very closely resembles your MVC diagram. They're re-invented actual MVC, and decided to assign a new name to it. Aaargh!
/u/FecklessFool on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
How could they make such a crass mistake?
/u/manys on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
The only people who profess to know what the One True Tool, such as we have here in Facebook development, are those whose fortunes rest on the stock market, and thus technical marketing. You can ...
/u/ on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
I wish one would
/u/_pupil_ on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Personally I've found MVVM to be an apt solution to those kinds of issues. The "Model" represents a traditional MVC/MVP model, encapsulating all state and behaviour of distinct entities, and th...
/u/gunder_bc on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
As far as I can tell (and as others have said) - FB seems to have missed the boat here. Their FLUX diagram is what I understood proper MVC to be...
/u/earthboundkid on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Just call it "pattern matching": boom, it's the hot new thing.
/u/ on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
You're confusing an entity with a model. A model can represent the actual data entity, e.g. a User class that represents the schema of your database's User table. In MVC, the controller is resp...
/u/ on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
How is this different than MVC with many controllers?
/u/dnew on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
> Doesn't "a user" get used in multiple views? Yes. Indeed, that's the idea of a view. The point of organizing things as MVC is to prevent that from overly complicating the system. As an...
/u/lobehold on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
I think the title is wrongly worded. From the article their main problem isn't scale, but damage control. So that one piece of code would never become important enough to cause a domino effect ...
/u/timdorr on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Not only does it have a God object smell, it's basically controlled by a giant switch statement ... HRNGHHH! Sorry, I just had a small stroke.
/u/imfineny on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
In MVC, a controller / model can / will update multiple data structures via tight coupling. Here they chain the updates by sending messages back to the controller (dispatcher) to other stores loo...
/u/MisterMahn on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Give up on what? What does what other dev shops do matter at all? Programming is just a way to solve a problem, and there are a thousand ways to skin a cat.
/u/MisterMahn on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
I am fond of the "event driven" approach. This system doesn't need it's unique implementation, however. It's not a daunting challenge to set up observers/listeners that abstract away some of the ...
/u/kbfirebreather on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Doesn't "a user" get used in multiple views? Isn't that what they're illustrating here? With what your saying, "a user" is only used to login, but nothing else. A single controller might pull fro...
/u/x86_64Ubuntu on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
I know I'm not as hardcore as the devs at Facebook, but I wonder how much of the failing of MVC has to do with technical debt. We've all been there, where we build something and due to business p...
/u/robertbieber on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
You're missing the most important point, which is gating new features to selective groups of users. I can't make different users hit different branches on production servers (at least not without...
/u/dnew on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
> behaviorless models Annnnd.... there's the problem. What is being modeled if one's model has no behavior? That's not MVC. MVC assumes the model comes first and is independent of the views an...
/u/coarsesand on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
It's difficult for someone to learn what a new tool is good for when their immediate reaction to seeing the words "JavaScript" or "framework" is to whine about it.
/u/MisterMahn on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Creating things; that is the fun part, right? If they can put something together that works for them, who gives a rat's ass what outsiders think? I'm not impressed with FB's coding, though. Tak...
/u/hackinthebochs on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
> The models are responsible for enforcing the business logic - that's > what they're for. Right, but the controller is still doing the update--by calling the appropriate method on...
/u/ on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
It is nice to see discussion on patterns other than MVC, event though judging by most the comments on this thread there is a long way to go before the general internet population start to look at...
/u/KallDrexx on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
The difference is that feature toggles add complexity to code paths in many many if statements to determine which code path / feature code to run. That means to reproduce a bug you must know the ...
/u/ggtsu_00 on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
This proposed system still seams to have the same tight coupling problems. Here is a different idea that has been working well for an extremely complex system that does not work well with MVC. ...
/u/CorrugatedCommodity on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
"We don't know how to implement MVC and so our interdependent spaghetti code is too difficult to maintain."
/u/mycall on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
What is the difference?
/u/dnew on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
> updates of all the models it interacts with No, the update of one model should be triggering updates in other models. If the user is asked to add a friend, it should also tell the frie...
/u/dnew on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Exactly. The model should be one model, with multiple things updating it. A model is something like "a user" or "a company" or "a class" (in an IDE), with a variety of ways of reading and writing...
/u/Solon1 on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Most understandings of MVC are misunderstandings though. Wait until the SmallTalk programmers show up and explain Real MVC.
/u/runvnc on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
My takeaway from just glancing at this, although I don't think I understand it particularly well yet, I think I understand and agree with the the general idea. First of all, I think the recogni...
/u/gigitrix on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
I thought the exact same thing. "Our misunderstanding of MVC sucks, you shod totally use real MVC"
/u/ravinglunatic on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Not lost just obscured by bloggers and elitist developers. I think most businesses enforce that attitude but often to the extreme of getting the job done poorly.
/u/runvnc on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
As far as more than one, I thought that was what it said -- per domain.
/u/KallDrexx on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Judging on them clearly misunderstanding the MVC architecture (as others have mentioned) I'm more inclined to believe that their complexity is more of a factor of using feature toggles instead of...
/u/ on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
> whatever gets the job done. it seems "the right tool for the job" mentality has been lost
/u/hackinthebochs on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
It seems that this architecture is shifting MVC to something that looks event-based. "Stores" register themselves (and presumably any call-order dependencies) with the dispatcher, and the dispatc...
/u/crusoe on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Dispatcher = Controller Store = Model View = View Something I am missing? Given the other stupid designs cooked up by facebook, such as their infamous android hack to get their bloated cl...
/u/ravinglunatic on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
Another JavaScript framework and design pattern? Ugh. I give up. I'm going to wait for the one framework and design pattern to rule them all. In the meantime I'll stick with doing whatever the he...
/u/weirdasianfaces on Facebook: MVC Does Not Scale, Use Flux Instead
> For one, their MVC Graphic is insanely flawed. I thought the same thing. They made it appear way more complex than it should ever be.